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- An Osprey
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- An Osprey!
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- An Osprey?
I don’t believe I’ve ever cheered for Munster before. Sure, I’ve sat with bland indifference while all around me rediscovered aunties from Tipp and grannies from Athenry (!) in order to shout on Munster in Heineken Cup finals.
That ends this weekend.
See, I used to like the Ospreys too. I went to Swansea for a Leinster match 3 years ago and shared a couple of beers with a fella from Swansea who hated the Ospreys because they represented not only Swansea, but that town’s bitter inland rivals, Neath. It gave me an impression of what this club has had to do just to exist. Sure, it helps that the local football club have a nice new stadium you can play in, that the WRU are willing to throw money at you, and that your PR people have found a seemingly bottomless pit of money in new sponsors for new player signings. It also helps that you come into existence at a time when Wales is developing its best group of young players in thirty years. I liked the Ospreys, and now I don’t. I’ve even posted about it here, here, here and here.
The reasons have been stated here again and again since last spring, when the Ospreys failed to fulfill a match against Ulster, claiming to have a lack of frontrow options. It later emerged that the squad had been given the week off and that many went on holidays. This came on the back of an incident in the Heineken Cup when they fielded a team that contained an improperly-signed player, and played for a period with 16 players. At the root of this, there is a nagging feeling that they will do whatever they can to win cups.
The cup they did win last season was won with honest endeavour and an incredible skill level in a final against Leinster away. They were terrific, and I almost didn’t mind that Leinster lost, except that the Ospreys never should have been in the final.
The week before that match, and three months after the events outlined above the authorities in the Celtic League finally assembled a disciplinary hearing and fined the Ospreys £100,000 and gave them a four point deduction; only the four point deduction wasn’t to apply until this season, and not the one in which the offence had occurred. Had the deduction been applied properly they would have had an away semi in Glasgow rather than a home one to the same opposition.
Finally, late last week, buried under a lot of news in relation to the new season, an appeals committee met and suspended the points deduction for 2 years. When one considers that the fine is more than covered by the non-payment of Gavin Henson, the Ospreys have seemingly cheated and got away with it, thanks largely to the incompetence of the Celtic League, an issue that has reared its head once again this week, with some harsh words for the league in relation to officiating in the league by Gerry Thornley in the Irish Times.
Finally, I may have the last laugh, as the suspension means that the Ospreys now have to avoid bending the rules for 2 years, which is a big ask.
So, what would be adequate punishment? Losing those four points in what is really a quite simple task away in Thomond…
Points of Blue 
September 15, 2010 at 10:08 am |
Let me see If I can list all the things factually wrong with this article (no offence meant to you – seems to be a lot of things that are ‘common knowledge’ that are entirely false)
1) it is not the football teams ground – it is co-owned by the Ospreys, the football team and the council – meaning it is as much the ospreys ground as it is the football teams
2) how is getting a lot of sponsorship money (the most of any club in the UK) a bad thing?
3) The WRU don’t ‘throw money’ at them – in fact they only pay what they should – which s to say fees for being in the HEC, TV money etc – money that in England goes through Premier Rugby Ltd but in Wales via the WRY who like to make it sound like they are handing out, well, handouts, but in reality aren’t.
4) The Ospreys ‘signings’ are impressive, collins, bowe etc – but they also have an 85% home grown stat for their squad.
5) The ulster thing is nothing like you are claiming. They went on holiday BECAUSE they couldnt play. if they called back their front row on holiday they wouldnt have enough front row anyway. You have cause and effect the wrong way around. I wrote about it more in depth here http://welshrugbyblog.co.uk/the-magners-league-doesnt-want-good-players/
6) Ricky Januarie was not signed illegally – more Leicester propaganda because they failed to qualify. It was investigated and found he was properly signed.
7) the byrne thing was a mistake, and an honest one, one that we paid for. odd that so many people hate the ospreys for this but when england did it in 03 it barely got a mention. Richard Cockerill deserves a lot of plaudits here though, simply saying ‘they were the better team, lets move on’. shame his chairman disagreed. how you get from that 1 incident that we are ‘fundamentally cheats’ is beyond me (any more cheating than gouging by quinlan etc?)
8) ‘Should never have been in the final’. EVEN if we had the points deduction (which I argue shouldnt have happened) we would still have been in the semis and likely still have made the final given how we were playing. so how do you get that we shouldnt have been in the final from that?
those 8 should do to be going on with…
September 15, 2010 at 10:23 am |
Fair cop on the ground ownership point, but I never said that having lots of sponsorship is wrong. I said it helped them develop and become a club I liked. Ditto with the WRU point.
The point about the holiday is EXACTLY what you are claiming. They said they couldn’t play so they allowed their players to go on holiday. The fact is, they could play. A previous post here pointed out many of the other teams who drew from regional teams to put out a front row…Any front row. The Ospreys however, allowed their players to go on holiday instead.
Ricky Januarie was signed in accordance with all proper regulations and was allowed to play Magners League matches. However, he signed for only 2 months and was therfore NOT allowed to play HC matches (there is a 3 month minimum). The HC decided not to ppunish them, even though they had broken the rules.
The ‘fundamentally cheats’ remark is based on the 3 incidents combined…it moved beyond coincidence and into the realms of bloody obvious when the third incident happened in 3 months.
September 15, 2010 at 10:34 am |
Look at it again. The Ospreys were missing too many props between international call ups, injuries and suspension – they didnt have enough left. So how could they play? the holiday DOESNT matter, I have no clue why people bring it up. If we count the players on holiday as available there still isn’t enough props.
Where could they have got more from? Firstly the ML doesn’t have the right to force call ups from other teams. BUT even if they did on the very same day that the game was happening (which itself was rearranged because ulster dont have facilities in place, and at a time when we were told ML games wouldnt happen), the very same day was the two Ospreys feeder teams (itself a myth) playing each other in a 1st vs 2nd clash in the Welsh Premiership. The players were not available. You can not just throw in young props who arent up to it – you’ll end up breaking someones neck like that!
Wrong agan re Januarie – take another look. It was not that they decided nto to punish it was because there was nothing to punish. The official decision was “The European Rugby Cup told the Welsh region they had “no case to answer” after an investigation into scrum-half Ricky Januarie’s registration.” http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/my_club/ospreys/8533150.stm
3 incidents is now down to 2, 1 of which is dubious, and that is enough to condemn them as fundamental cheats? interesting. is any player who gives away 2 penalties in a game also fundamental cheats?
So in short, for that is listed, your hatred of the ospreys is now down to calling a game off because they didnt have enough front row and for having 16 players on the park for 30 secs or so?
September 15, 2010 at 11:37 am |
When the Ospreys signed Januarie Leinster were investigating signing Matt Giteau, but decided against it, knowing that they’d have to register him for 3 months at least in order to cover Jonny Sexton’s absence for only a month. The Ospreys signed Januarie knowing that they’d only have him for 2 months and surely knowing the rules of the competition. As such, they signed him for the bare minimum 3 months but let him go after 2. Such rule-bending as this kept them within the limits of HC regulations (‘no case to answer’) but lost them a lot of admirers, me included – particularly when accompanied by two other incidents of what many would call cheating.
Clearly, you don’t call it that, but I do. Having been at the Stoop for the ‘bloodgate’ incident I was delighted to see the heavy punishment handed down to Quins, but the sheer incompetence of the Magners League in failing to adequately punish the Ospreys really made this episode grate.
September 15, 2010 at 11:47 am |
‘failed to adequately punish the ospreys’ I see your research is still going well. You claim in another article the Ospreys were never punished for Byrne, which was wrong, they had a 25k fine. In this instance they were fined 100k. Which is the 2nd highest in the history of club rugby behind only bloodgate.
Sheer incompetence was allowing games to happen in an international window.
And you have to love how you decide that the januarie thing is cheating whilst admitting its not. We had him for 2 months. How many games were due to happen in the 3rd month he was signed for us? None, which is why we allowed him to go and play rugby elsewhere. No case to answer as no rules were broken – as simple as that.
so we are left with you hating us for a player being on the pitch for 50 secs when he shouldnt have been and for not having enough front row (they had more than the ML minimum per squad btw, but with long term injuries, a suspension and 4 being with the welsh squad there wasnt much they could do).
This rant at the ospreys isnt really looking so effective now.
September 15, 2010 at 11:53 am |
“Sheer incompetence was allowing games to happen in an international window.”
“How many games were due to happen in the 3rd month he was signed for us? None”
Mocking is catching, but it was never my intention to get personal in my ‘rant’. I don’t like the Ospreys because of three incidents that I found to be individually and collectively dishonest, and which I feel are against the spirit of the game. They have adopted a ‘win at all costs’ mentality that frankly stinks, but who knows? They may win me back by continuing to play exciting and open rugby without the appendage of this sort of nonsense.
September 15, 2010 at 12:09 pm |
Sorry but I don’t get the “it’s not personal” type attitude when you can accuse a team (made up of people) of being systematic cheats – and then in the same breath as saying its not personal accuse them of being “individually and collectively dishonest” – I would say that just because you are not naming names doesn’t mean it is any less personal (and since based on 2 ‘faults’ which they have been heavily fined for that is a lot to base “fundamentally cheats” and further insults on) is it not?
Now sure what the mocking is catching comment is about – I used your own sheer incompetence quote to emphasise my point.
September 15, 2010 at 12:10 pm |
that last bit should say ‘not sure’ instead of ‘now sure’
September 15, 2010 at 9:55 pm |
Joooooe, I think you have been answered in full. Please be generous enough to accept that for all our faults down here your claim that we are “fundamentally cheats” might be moderated somewhat?
I ask this so that we, as rugby supporters may maintain our traditions of friendship between different clubs that we have enjoyed for decades.
September 16, 2010 at 6:21 am |
While I’d LOVE to fall in along party lines I must say the assertion that the Ospreys are “cheats” is far-fetched at best, and while I haven’t exactly canvassed opinion, I’m confident the majority of Leinster fans would agree with me.
It’s clear throughout the world of rugby that although the game itself has gone professional, its administrators have been lagging far behind. Dozens of disciplinary situations have gone tits up from a PR standpoint and not just by the Magners League…Premier League Rugby, the ERC and SANZAR to name but three have recently had their moments.
I’m sure if you were forced to rank clubs against each for compliance with the rules some would be worse than others, but for one organisation to be “fundamentally cheats”? Can’t understand why a post on a Leinster blog would bandy that phrase about without once mentioning Harlequins.
September 16, 2010 at 8:58 am |
JL Pagano,
I think my ire was heightened by yet another silly decision from the Magners League suits, but previous blogs (links in this one) compare the situation (and others) to bloodgate and Harlequins.
It’s a bit depressing to see a great game going the way of ‘win at all costs’, but perhaps it’s inevitable in a much-monied professional sport.
September 16, 2010 at 9:01 am |
Paul Headon,
It’s a much-loved part of the game that there’s no need to segregate crowds, that we can booze in the same pubs, and that we can swap stories and jerseys and more. OK, ‘fundamentally cheats’ is probably OTT, but I have a strong suspicion that there was something rotten with the Ospreys last year for so many incidents to happen in such a short space of time.
Perhaps a more moderated term is in order and I’ll amend the blog accordingly!
Thanks for reading!
September 16, 2010 at 7:44 pm |
Again you are at it – taking back ‘fundemental cheats’ with one hand whilst giving ‘something rotten with the ospreys’ with the other.
all based on 2 incidents.
September 17, 2010 at 7:53 am |
The opinions of joooooe, in expressing his preference for a Munster win over the Ospreys, are his own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Points of Blue and it’s contributors
September 17, 2010 at 9:42 am |
@jungleb00gie – don’t you guys cheer on your own country’s teams ahead of others? Just wondering, for instance I am not a fan of Llanelli, but will always support tham against english/french/irish/scottish teams (even if I did laugh at them losing to trevisio).
Is that not the case in Ireland?